Well, I personally don’t shop there very often, so it might never have crossed my mind as an issue, but you may have heard that Costco’s national policy is no concealed weapons, permit or no.
Aside from snarkily pointing out that criminals aren’t likely to obey the sign (after all, if you’re gonna rob the joint and risk a couple decades in jail, who cares about a trespassing charge for ignoring some stupid sign), the biggest problem I have with the signs they’re putting up is the unfounded, unsupportable idea that CCW permit holders are a threat to the general public.
Stupid isn’t it? People who are a threat to the general public don’t generally go through the permitting process. But in any event, the KABA news network is suggesting we all call Costco and remind them of just how silly their policy is.
The number is 1-800-774-2678; dial them up and give them your feedback on their ludicrous gun ban policy.
Maybe COSTCO feels that it’s members are “a cut above the rest of us” and therfore do not believe that upper crust citizens need to carry guns. I say this because of the amount they charge for a membership to the “Club”.
Join Sam’s instead. They have the same stuff and it costs less to join.
Comment by scopefreak — October 20, 2006 @ 11:18 am
Note to grocery store felon types: rob the Costco, not the Sams.
Comment by Administrator — October 20, 2006 @ 11:22 am
Oh, come on, now this is just stupid. Whole thing seems like a tempest in a teapot to me. I read the original article, and apparently what happened is this dumbass takes off the shirt concealing his .45 in a store and then is shocked and offended that the store employees (and probably some customers) were a little uncomfortable with some big, hulking, shaved-head bearded dude walking around strapped w/ a handgun. Well, how exactly did this guy think people were gonna react?
Here’s a tip, Einstein, when carrying concealed, KEEP IT CONCEALED in public areas! The guy could have been arrested and lost his CCW for that dumb stunt. Instead of being thankful the store didn’t call the cops on him, he’s incredulous that they asked him to put his gun in the car. Where the fuck does he think he is– Beirut? Yeah, I’ll just go shopping and flash my loaded gun cause my flannel shirt is making me hot.
So it’s COSTCO’s policy, so what? They’re a business, not the government, and I don’t think it’s unreasonable for a business owner to say they don’t want customers carrying loaded guns inside. And, quite frankly, if the dude had just been smart enough to keep his gun concealed, the issue would have never come up.
I like COSTCO. Unlike Sam’s they are not virulently anti-union, and the avg. employee wage is just under $15 an hour (unheard of in retail) and they offer health benefits to their employees. I’m not gonna call them up and bitch because this dumbfuck made the mistake of flashing his piece in the store.
Comment by RedTeamGo! — October 22, 2006 @ 2:19 pm
We just had a Costco open up here this past Friday. I haven’t been yet, but I’m told they have a hunting department. I’ll have to check it out and see how it jibes with their “NO GUNS” policy.
Comment by Brass — October 22, 2006 @ 3:24 pm
Joe Waldron (CCRKBA) made a very cogent and rational comment on the issue.
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/wa-ccw/message/39882
“Whatever the official company policy, I’ve never seen a sign in a Washington CostCo.
This appears to be a phenomena in states with newly-passed CCW laws. Most have provision for posting against carry, and many businesses within that state adopt a no-guns policy — precisely because of all the (negative) media attention called to the issue.
In states like WA, which had CCW or shall-issue CCW long before the word g-u-n became a four letter word, it’s a non-issue. A classic case of this is Minnesota, which had a discretionary issue CCW law for decades — and almost NO restrictions on where a licensee could carry. When MN passed it’s new shall-issue law a few years ago, the pols included many more (new) restricted areas, and a posting provision, which many businesses immediately took “advantage” of.
The hot issue there was churches, because the posting requirement included not only signage but verbal notification. The churches and the anti crowd in MN went to court over the dual notification requirement.
The bottom line here is, if you can’t stand the answer, don’t ask the question. And if you’re properly carrying concealed (not flashing to be “cool”), no one will ever lnow… unless you’re attacked within the store.”
Comment by Ken Grubb — October 23, 2006 @ 1:31 am
Interesting; let us know what you find. Thanks!
Comment by Administrator — October 23, 2006 @ 5:32 am
RedTeam–it’s not so much that its wrong for business owners to not want people to carry guns, it’s just that it IS a tempest in a teapot. You’re just thinking about the wrong tempest–people lawfully carrying isn’t something to really worry about. The people you don’t want to carry certainly aren’t going to be indiscrete about it until the crime is actually being committed. Crooks are sneaky like that. That, and the idea that the sign is actually going to make anyone safer is silly.
But yeah, keep it concealed dumbasses.
MD is a similar state to the phenomenon Ken is talking about re: MN. Because permits are so rare, there are very few strictures about where you can and can’t carry, and there isn’t much on the books about whether you have to conceal or not. It’s funny that way.
Comment by Administrator — October 23, 2006 @ 7:08 pm
Washington state is an open carry state and I open carry. Last evening I was shopping in Costco (as I do nearly every week) and was approached by a manager. She said that a costomer was “uncomfortable” with me carrying a gun and would I please leave the gun in my car. I answered NO, that I would NOT leave my gun in the car but I would be happy to leave if she asked me to. She said that she was not asking me to leave and that I could continue shopping.
I open carry at all times when not at work and this is only the 2nd time anything has happened. The other was at my (former) bank where I was asked to leave and did (never to return).
although OC is frowned upon by the CCW crowd generally, I switched from CCW to OC and have been extremly glad I did. I carry a 1911 in a Blackhawk Serpa holster (Level II retention) and most of the time I end up in positive discussions with people just as I did with the Costco manager. She and I talked for about 10 minutes while I attempted to educate her on firearms and carry in general.
And as far as the “keep it concealled dumbasses” I prefer to think that having the gun visible is a deterent and a distinct tactical advantage as it can be drawn much faster than from concealment.
BTW, as open carry is legal in Washington, a person legally carrying concealled (permit required) and accidentaly showing the gun is not a crime. No permit is required to open carry.
If Costco decides to enforce their no firearms policy I will simply not shop there any more. Its called dollar votes.
Comment by Ken Kirkham — July 11, 2007 @ 3:11 pm
to the #8 poster who open carrys:
I’m a CCW who carrys daily except at work, and an advocate of pro-gun legislation. I’m curious what your take is regarding the idea that open carry is socially taboo, alarms most people and makes them very uncomfortable. Now I understand that from a self-defense standpoint open carry provides several advantages, but when the majority of the people you encounter and have made unforfatble decide to go vote, you have effectively hurt our alreay vague barely pro-gun owner state laws. ( I recall something about unlawful to carry, weild, make visible….blah blah blah in a manner that may cause alarm to some people….)
Comment by brady hansen — August 28, 2007 @ 1:36 pm
For those dumbasses, who say “keep it concealed dumbasses”: MN does NOT required (thanks Creator!) to keep it concealed. So it’s up to me: to keep it concealed for my protection or to make a statement to offend soc*ialist “million moms” or some criminals or some dumbasses. Got it?
Comment by Len — October 1, 2007 @ 9:23 am
For those dumbasses, who say “keep it concealed dumbasses”: MN does NOT required (thanks Creator!) to keep it concealed. So it’s up to me: keep it concealed or to make a statement. To offend soci*alists “million moms” or some criminals or some other dumbasses. Got it?..
Comment by Len — October 1, 2007 @ 9:26 am
To Ken Kirkham: I’d check the RCW again if I were you, because the law is a damn sight more ambivalent that you seem to acknowledge. RCW 9.41.270 makes it illegal “for any person to carry, exhibit, display, or draw any firearm […] in a manner […] that warrants alarm for the safety of other persons.” It’s rather hazy what kinds of manner “warrant alarm,” but I suggest you consult a lawyer, rather than finding out the hard way how local law enforcement interprets it.
Moreover, RCW 9.41.50 states that “a person shall not carry or place a loaded pistol in any vehicle unless the person has a license to carry a concealed pistol […].” If you don’t have a CPL, and you get into your car without clearing and locking your 1911 in a container inaccessible to you while you’re driving, you are committing a misdemeanor.
“I prefer to think that having the gun visible is a deterent and a distinct tactical advantage as it can be drawn much faster than from concealment.”
Perhaps, but the whole notion of the armed citizen as a general deterrent to crime is predicated on the notion that a violent criminal can’t tell whether a citizen is armed or not. If we all carried openly, violent criminals would avoid us, but rather than being deterred from committing crime, would simply select victims who weren’t visibly carrying, and successfully.
Comment by Jurjen S. — October 8, 2007 @ 7:38 am
Actually the law has been challenged and has been clarified. A gun a holster is NOT cause that warrants alarm. The person would also have to be behaving in a threating manor.
The example is when a person has an argument, leave and returns with a gun strapped on to continue the argument. That is a threatening manner and illegal.
Shopping with my wife with a gun on my hip is not illegal and is not cause to warrant alarm.
As for the OC or ccw being safer…if I intended to rob some place I personally would not want to make a move if I saw a gun on someones hip. But thats just me; a crook might decide to take out the gun toting person first. I will take my chances with that.
Comment by Ken Kirkham — November 11, 2007 @ 6:43 pm
“a crook might decide to take out the gun toting person first. I will take my chances with that.”
I knew a gunstore owner in CA many years ago who carried openly. I advised him against it since a robber would likely shoot immediately upon entering. When I last saw him, he had a scar on his wrist and kept his gun concealed because a robber stepped into his store and fired on him. He was leaning his head on his hand while writing on the counter and his wrist and wristwatch kept the bullet out of his head. Open carry may deter some robbers but not others. Concealed carry means that the robber doesn’t know who’s armed and will probably worry him more.
I am going to call CostCo and object to their policy. It is my business where I take my person and a “criminal safe zone” is one that I prefer to avoid. Remember the Luby’s massacre in Killeen, TX, before you say that a “No Guns” policy is just the store’s business.
Comment by Arthur — November 13, 2007 @ 6:21 pm
As for SAM’s club they also have a national policy of no guns allowed just like Costco. When I was asked by Costco to please not bring my gun in I went to SAM’s club and asked them what their policy was and now I don’t want to shop at either place.
Comment by Ken Kirkham — November 30, 2007 @ 2:22 pm